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CAGED System – Changing Pentatonic Scales – Two Chords – D & C – Lesson 29

Lesson by: SynGates.com

SynGates.com

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In this lesson we show you how to change between two different pentatonic scales over their correlating chords.
 

Mathmilam

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Feb 12, 2020
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Messing around with this kind of gives me a Duane Allman feel. This is really good stuff. Cant believe Ive overlooked it for so long.
 

MachinaMaiden

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Feb 4, 2020
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I noticed that when switching to the G shape it essentially makes it an Am pentatonic scale. Which is the relative minor of C, right? My question comes from how did we choose to play the G shape pentatonic over that? What would happen if I decided to play let's say, the E or D shape but out of that same fifth position? Can we do that too?
 
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Ids Schiere

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I noticed that when switching to the G shape it essentially makes it an Am pentatonic scale. Which is the relative minor of C, right? My question comes from how did we choose to play the G shape pentatonic over that? What would happen if I decided to play let's say, the E or D shape but out of that same fifth position? Can we do that too?
Yes Am is the relative minor of C.

To answer your other question there's a little bit of theory involved. In A minor pentatonic you have the following notes, A C D E G. You can't possibly get exactly the same notes with the a different shape in the same position. That's why it's a different shape. CAGED basically tells you where and how you can find notes on the neck. You can combine shapes all you want but at the same position they will never make up the same scale/chord.
 

Calvin Phillips

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Nov 11, 2019
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I noticed that when switching to the G shape it essentially makes it an Am pentatonic scale. Which is the relative minor of C, right? My question comes from how did we choose to play the G shape pentatonic over that? What would happen if I decided to play let's say, the E or D shape but out of that same fifth position? Can we do that too?
The shapes never change.. just where they start. It's all about finding the root of a shape you are comfortable with and going from there. A and e are two easier ones to find your root on. Once you get that down itll be easier to find the shape that relates to the scale or chord you want to use. Takes lots of practice and memorization. This is one I haven't gotten ahead on yet myself.
 

Ryan Rothstein

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Nov 11, 2019
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This shit has been kicking my ass. I feel relatively confident improvising in the most common keys using the CAGED system, but I'm constantly moving up and down. I don't know why my small brain can't connect the dots on staying in one place but swapping chords. Anyone have any tips to short-circuit this process? Or is it just good old-fashioned hard work and practice?
 
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Calvin Phillips

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I think it helps to choose chords that share notes.. but are different scales. This helps you hear the tone difference between your two chords cause each scale will have that slight tone difference. What you could do then is use your major and relative minor together and use the same scale for those 2. Then take the other chord and add it on there. I'm sure your not into relative minors yet but it's the minor chord that shares the same scale.

Either way I'd start first off with 2. You probably will have to look up the scales to find 2 that are close. Theres tons that share a lot of notes. Then what you can teach yourself to do is pandemic on those notes that arent part of both scales everytime you hit those chords. That will help you remember when to change it up. The best way to find chords that work together but dont share every note is to look at the penatonic scale of the first chord you use. (Again this is taught a little later).

That may sound a little complicated but if you work through the lessons you'll figure ot all out. Me personally I'm not changing chords often when I jam. Just in blues really. Metal jams I'm mostly jamming g minor and bflat major. As they are relative to each other. So if it's too much to down 2 scales for you I recommend that route. I also found playing blues helped slow me.down enough to hear the chord changes too. But like I also said a lot of scales just have 2 or 3 notes different from each other so it's just finding those notes and using them to your advantage when you want to change between chords.
 

Roli Papp

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Nov 11, 2019
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I dont get why is the G shape on a C.Is it about findig the root note?If so,how do i find it?I kinda get it but still,i struggle with it sometimes.
 

Ids Schiere

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I dont get why is the G shape on a C.Is it about findig the root note?If so,how do i find it?I kinda get it but still,i struggle with it sometimes.
It's to stay in the 5th position.

Basically, a basic chord is root, third and fifth. If you can recognize the intervals in the chord you're playing you can find the root. Unless you do inversions the root is the lowest note you play.
 

Qwerty1928

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Jun 6, 2020
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To make sure I get the theory behind this : everytime he changes chords here, by changing shape in the same position, he reset to a new key, right?
 
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Ids Schiere

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To make sure I get the theory behind this : everytime he changes chords here, by changing shape in the same position, he reset to a new key, right?
No, Key is a group of chords. 12 bar blues in A for example is I-IV-V in A. Here you're playing the C and D chord which is the IV and V chord of G. Changing shape doesn't change the chord it just changes the sound of the chord while essentially being the same chord.
 

Qwerty1928

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Jun 6, 2020
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No, Key is a group of chords. 12 bar blues in A for example is I-IV-V in A. Here you're playing the C and D chord which is the IV and V chord of G. Changing shape doesn't change the chord it just changes the sound of the chord while essentially being the same chord.
Sorry I didn't word what I meant properly.

I don't mean the chord changes themselves, but more like the pentatonic shapes he is playing over the chords ( as they change).

Here is how I am seeing it (please correct me if I am wrong :) ) =>

He starts with the A shape in 5th position, which would give a B minor pentatonic, and a D major scale.

He then switch to a G shape in 5th position, which would give a A minor pentatonic, and a C major scale.

Since the major scale seems to change accordingly, that's why I though there is a key change
 
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Ids Schiere

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Sorry I didn't word what I meant properly.

I don't mean the chord changes themselves, but more like the pentatonic shapes he is playing over the chords ( as they change).

Here is how I am seeing it (please correct me if I am wrong :) ) =>

He starts with the A shape in 5th position, which would give a B minor pentatonic, and a D major scale.

He then switch to a G shape in 5th position, which would give a A minor pentatonic, and a C major scale.

Since the major scale seems to change accordingly, that's why I though there is a key change
No, key of a piece of music is determined by chords not by scales. Scales are just something you can play over said chords but won't really tell you anything about the key really. There are way to many options in terms of scales over each particular chord to let that decide the key.
 

Qwerty1928

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Jun 6, 2020
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No, key of a piece of music is determined by chords not by scales. Scales are just something you can play over said chords but won't really tell you anything about the key really. There are way to many options in terms of scales over each particular chord to let that decide the key.
Hmmm.

Music theory is so confusing to me :D

So here he plays D Major and C Major, which makes it in key of G.

Okay, so, last one: now he plays only pentatonic A & B over those chords. If he played the whole major scale in A & G shape, 5th position, it would clash with the G key right? Like C#,G#, F, they'd be out of key

Or could it then be considered constant modulation between 2 keys? ( Playing chord I of D & resetting to C & resetting to D etc)?

Thanks a lot for the explanations!
 
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Ids Schiere

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Hmmm.

Music theory is so confusing to me :D

So here he plays D Major and C Major. 2 Major chords a tone a part would be IV and V. So this is simply in the Key of G?

Okay, so, last one: now he plays only pentatonic A & B over those chords. If he played the whole major scale in A & G shape, 5th position, it would clash with the G key right? Like C#,G#, F, they'd be out of key

Or could it then be considered constant modulation between 2 keys? ( Playing chord I of D & resetting to C & resetting to D etc)?

Thanks a lot for the explanations!
It's probably closer to D mixolydian but yeah it's part of G major.

On your second question, no they won't. That's a bit more of an advanced concept that Jak's working in right now I believ. Basically you don't always have access to all the cool flavours and sounds in a particular scale so over each chord you may venture outside the scale of the key to access those flavours.

Let's take for example G-D-Em-C, this chord progression is in the key of G but when you solo over it you could for example use G lydian I've G-D to access the major seventh of the D in that way and do a chromatic run like that back to C when you go into the C. You can also use The C Major scale over C-Em to access all the flavours of C for C and the falvours of E phrygian over Em and last but not least you can use E Dorian over Em to access the sixth of Em and go into the G. All while the chord progression is still in G. It's all about the flavours you want to add to your solo.
 
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Qwerty1928

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It's probably closer to D mixolydian but yeah it's part of G major.

On your second question, no they won't. That's a bit more of an advanced concept that Jak's working in right now I believ. Basically you don't always have access to all the cool flavours and sounds in a particular scale so over each chord you may venture outside the scale of the key to access those flavours.

Let's take for example G-D-Em-C, this chord progression is in the key of G but when you solo over it you could for example use G lydian I've G-D to access the major seventh of the D in that way and do a chromatic run like that back to C when you go into the C. You can also use The C Major scale over C-Em to access all the flavours of C for C and the falvours of E phrygian over Em and last but not least you can use E Dorian over Em to access the sixth of Em and go into the G. All while the chord progression is still in G. It's all about the flavours you want to add to your solo.
Wow.

I think I vaguely understand what you are saying. Then this is almost intimidating how limitless the possibilities are in term of what to play over chords.

Thanks a lot anyway! :)
 
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Stephen woodcock

Garage band Groupie
Nov 11, 2019
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It's to stay in the 5th position.

Basically, a basic chord is root, third and fifth. If you can recognize the intervals in the chord you're playing you can find the root. Unless you do inversions the root is the lowest note you play.
He wanted to stay in the 5th position. So he used the A shape to play the D major pentatonic scale. The root of the A shape being the D on the 5th string, 5th fret. Then the G shape and scale being the C major scale, the root being the C on the 6th string, 8th fret.
That's my understanding, but I'm just learning this too.
 

Wally

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    So this is where some of my confusion lies. So when playing over these two chords you're basically listening for the chord progression and then alternating between the two patterns as needed right? Or wrong? I'm a little confused and I'm having trouble breaking the habit of playing up and down.
     
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    Ids Schiere

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    So this is where some of my confusion lies. So when playing over these two chords you're basically listening for the chord progression and then alternating between the two patterns as needed right? Or wrong? I'm a little confused and I'm having trouble breaking the habit of playing up and down.
    Yes, in principle what you want to do for each individual chord is pick one of the options you know works over the chord and tie them together. Sometimes, there's a one scale fits all and other times there isn't
     

    Wally

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    Yes, in principle what you want to do for each individual chord is pick one of the options you know works over the chord and tie them together. Sometimes, there's a one scale fits all and other times there isn't
    But if I recognize the shape that's being used for the chord wouldn't that also be the shape for the pattern that I'm using? For example if the chord is a D shape couldn't I play the D shape pattern to match the chord?